Miloš Mandarić :
Let me ask you a question: your friend is having a change of mind, asking you for advice which phone to buy. Iphone or N900. He is not a free or opensource dude, he doesn’t know nothing about it and probably don’t care. What would you tell him: buy whatever you like, it’s the same closed crap?

If he’s someone who, like you, don’t give a damn about his rights, I’d probably tell him that both are proprietary crap, but the N900 is a little less so.

Miloš Mandarić :

You do remember Nokia is investing heavily in Free and open source? Maemo, Trolltech, Symbian soon.

You do remember Nokia is strongly lobbying for software patents in Europe?

You do remember Nokia is against Ogg?

Miloš Mandarić :

“But there’s more you opt to ignore, like the reasons they keep certain packages closed”
No, I am not ignoring it. This is pretty much obvious, everybody know the reasons. If they made every package completely free, which they CAN, everybody can make exactly the same copy of phone. Which means much less profit.

Firstly, yes, you’re ignoring them (real proof comes from you, it’s not it, it’s them).

Miloš Mandarić :

“Nokia is the enemy, not the friend that some try to promote.”
Enemy to who? Enemy to you and RMS?

To anyone who values their software freedom. Evidently you do not value them, and you are opposed to people who value them, because you come here and utterly fail in your attempt to insult me with your last remark.

Miloš Mandarić :

“That’s factually wrong. Quim (a Nokia employee) specifically claimed Software freedom lovers would love it.

So it is a fact that they were trying to market it as being 100% free.”

No it isn’t! 98% code would be open(or even more) and no one is hiding that. It’s subjective to call it open or closed.

2%? Firstly, I’d like to see that number adequately checked out. Secondly, who said those 2% don’t carry most of the value?

Don’t hide behind such figures, because they’re not that small.

So it is a fact that they were trying to market it as being 100% free.”

No it isn’t! 98% code would be open(or even more) and no one is hiding that. It’s subjective to call it open or closed.
Let me ask you a question: your friend is having a change of mind, asking you for advice which phone to buy. Iphone or N900. He is not a free or opensource dude, he doesn’t know nothing about it and probably don’t care. What would you tell him: buy whatever you like, it’s the same closed crap? You do remember Nokia is investing heavily in Free and open source? Maemo, Trolltech, Symbian soon.

“But there’s more you opt to ignore, like the reasons they keep certain packages closed”
No, I am not ignoring it. This is pretty much obvious, everybody know the reasons. If they made every package completely free, which they CAN, everybody can make exactly the same copy of phone. Which means much less profit.

“Nokia is the enemy, not the friend that some try to promote.”
Enemy to who? Enemy to you and RMS?

If you think your comment is missing, please post again and accept my apologies.

Miloš Mandarić :

Openmoko miserably failed and Nokia made an awesome Linux phone. Why are you so jealous?

This is not a matter of jealousy, it’s a matter of contradicting the false freedomness Nokia is advertising.

But let me make something clear to you:

OpenMoko (the company), with an infinitesimally smaller fraction of money and human resources failed miserabilly.

Nokia, with a huge finantial and human resources background, still reserves the right to laugh in your face and claim the phone is open.

Miloš Mandarić :

Nokia is claiming that they have made an open phone. They have never claimed it’s 100% open. Yes it has some closed source drivers, telephony stack is also closed. It’s not fully open and it will never be. But they are getting more open after every release and you should applaud them for that. n900 is not an open phone for you, that’s fine. But it is for a lot of other people. Especially if you compare it with Iphone.

That’s factually wrong. Quim (a Nokia employee) specifically claimed Software freedom lovers would love it.

So it is a fact that they were trying to market it as being 100% free. They only backed down from it after the outrage of the insults.

But there’s more you opt to ignore, like the reasons they keep certain packages closed. They do reveal the real mentality of Nokia. If the good engineers can’t change that, then they have no real power and whatever they say in this regard is to be ignored: Nokia is the enemy, not the friend that some try to promote.

Let’s bring down Nokia!, I’ve not even own any phone (you know, my freerunner never arrived, so I better use… well… well… never mind, back to this suckers) they don’t deserve the right to earn any money by false promises!

How they dare to take away my right to endless compilations? I want my super-custom-optimized kernel, I’m cool, who cares what you think.

keitai :

let me nitpick

~ $ cat /proc/sys/kernel/tainted
0
~ $ uname -a
Linux Nokia-N900-xx 2.6.28-omap1 #1 PREEMPT day mon 2 15:34:40 EEST 2009 armv7l unknown.
~ $
so there you go!

the battery chargin happens in userland. genuine nokia batteries have protections and are not “dumb”, but some compatible and pirate batteries may not be. therefor trusting only the reading from the battery would be risky. but that is only one point why it hasn’t ended up being opensourced.

while nokia has many free software loving employees, as a company money $$ gets first priority. openmoko is a great example what happens when a company puts another value ahead of $$. it is also a great example of perfect being the enemy of good. insisting on completly free hardware left them with uncompetitive hardware and leading free sofware hackers getting unemployed. meanwhile free software people at nokia continued to release free software like bluez for the consumption of openmoko users..

Your remarks about OpenMoko try to suggest they failed because they wanted to be a fully Free Software device. Sorry, wrong. False statement.

In my perception of the events (and as a happy Freerunner user I followed it quite closely) they made lots of management mistakes, not the least of which trusting Samsung.

Then came along a serious economic downturn, and I’m sure FIC pushed the layoffs button: «you’re not making money and we need to cut costs, so even though you could be something big, it’s not the moment».

Nokia, on the other hand, is a hugely successful company, with lots of money. There’s simply no excuse.

Oh, and I forgot one thing about Linux taint, in order to work around the taint flag (which shows off a lot of bad karma) many vendors opt for having a non-taint thin layer around the real driver. The thin layer is compatible with the GPL, but then it loads a blob which is the real driver.

~ $ cat /proc/sys/kernel/tainted
0
~ $ uname -a
Linux Nokia-N900-xx 2.6.28-omap1 #1 PREEMPT day mon 2 15:34:40 EEST 2009 armv7l unknown.
~ $
so there you go!

the battery chargin happens in userland. genuine nokia batteries have protections and are not “dumb”, but some compatible and pirate batteries may not be. therefor trusting only the reading from the battery would be risky. but that is only one point why it hasn’t ended up being opensourced.

while nokia has many free software loving employees, as a company money $$ gets first priority. openmoko is a great example what happens when a company puts another value ahead of $$. it is also a great example of perfect being the enemy of good. insisting on completly free hardware left them with uncompetitive hardware and leading free sofware hackers getting unemployed. meanwhile free software people at nokia continued to release free software like bluez for the consumption of openmoko users..